Rear end damage

[ghostfranklin]

@FORZDA3 I'm going E85 with full exhaust, whipple FMIC, aFe intake, HPFP w/injectors. Adam from ZFG estimates I'll have ~550 awhp, I have the diffy stiffy as well I picked it up without even realizing the subframe issue just to add support for pushing close to double the crank power. No I don't race on weekends or go to the drag strip frequently I would just hate to get on the road and break down on the way to pick up the wife and kids, or something extremely inconvenient Would you replace the subframe or you think the diffy stiffy will save me the hassle?

 

[st8]

I’m not so sure it was a long-term change by Ford. It’s really odd that all the newer STs don’t have the 3-bolt setup. It looks to me like a temp solution to supply chain problems so Ford production line could get new cars out to dealers. I think it was a “local” decision made by a Field engineer, not a Design engineer. This is why the Ford Parts system shows 4-bolt setup for the STs, even those with 3-bolts.

I plan to cruise all the Ford/Lincoln dealers showing ST/Aviators in stock (within reasonable distance in my area) with a flashlight and knee pad to check them out for my theory.

All the 2022 STs have the 3 bolt design. From what I have seen.

 

[TMac]

@FORZDA3 I'm going E85 with full exhaust, whipple FMIC, aFe intake, HPFP w/injectors. Adam from ZFG estimates I'll have ~550 awhp, I have the diffy stiffy as well I picked it up without even realizing the subframe issue just to add support for pushing close to double the crank power. No I don't race on weekends or go to the drag strip frequently I would just hate to get on the road and break down on the way to pick up the wife and kids, or something extremely inconvenient Would you replace the subframe or you think the diffy stiffy will save me the hassle?

See my posts here:
https://www.explorerst.org/threads/...oom-from-emergency-auto-brake.2148/post-36529

 

[bluesnake01]

I’m not so sure it was a long-term change by Ford. It’s really odd that all the newer STs don’t have the 3-bolt setup. It looks to me like a temp solution to supply chain problems so Ford production line could get new cars out to dealers. I think it was a “local” decision made by a Field engineer, not a Design engineer. This is why the Ford Parts system shows 4-bolt setup for the STs, even those with 3-bolts.

I plan to cruise all the Ford/Lincoln dealers showing ST/Aviators in stock (within reasonable distance in my area) with a flashlight and knee pad to check them out for my theory.

As someone else stated, 2022 ST's are also arriving with the 3 bolt setup.

I would be curious on your case, IF your 4 bolt rear was to break. Would Ford swap it for another 3 bolt or 4 bolt? I mean, technically its still an "original" part and according to their systems, 4 bolt is the standard one.

 

[TMac]

One member here claimed their subframe was replaced by Ford with the 4 bolt model after the bolt sheared.

 

[bluesnake01]

One member here claimed their subframe was replaced by Ford with the 4 bolt model after the bolt sheared.

I believe two members did but thats not the norm as others were declined.

 

[st8]

I believe two members did but thats not the norm as others were declined.

Do you know what they informed their dealer in regards to the matter?

Still waiting for ford to tweet me back lol

 

[ghostfranklin]

See my posts here:
https://www.explorerst.org/threads/...oom-from-emergency-auto-brake.2148/post-36529

im going to see if the dealer will eat the part and ill take care of labor since im having local performance shop drop the rear exhaust, susp anyway

 

[Cdubya]

im going to see if the dealer will eat the part and ill take care of labor since im having local performance shop drop the rear exhaust, susp anyway

You know that will never happen.

 

[ghostfranklin]

@Cdubya we'll see between the explorer and the bronco sport they got over 100k out of me. So if they wanna dick around over 1% of the total sales price that's on them, but that 5 star google review and survey will also go to one star. So is $1,500 worth ruining a relationship with a customer that just bought two vehicles, already sent referrals, and damaging your web presence? Maybe, maybe not. I'm taking delivery of the bronco sport saturday it'll be a real simple conversation, I'm looking for this and we're talking 1% of the sales price. I'm happy, your happy we move on. Or you don't make it right and now I'm unhappy, drag you online, and never refer or purchase from you again. Not looking to waste each other's time just want to know how to proceed.

Either way I'll keep you posted.

Oh btw Ford didn't want to be bothered so I tagged NHTSA and NHTSArecalls on twitter. Maybe it's white noise to them maybe they listen. I tried and shout out to everyone on this forum for sharing info thats what it's all about.

 

[ghostfranklin]

See my posts here:
https://www.explorerst.org/threads/...oom-from-emergency-auto-brake.2148/post-36529

lol and my diffy stiffy will be going up for sale this weekend. Thanks @TMac

 

[Cdubya]

Either way I'll keep you posted.

All I'm saying is they will never just give you the part. You are much better off saying the part is not supposed to be there but is for whatever reason--and get them to fully replace it. The Explorer 3.0L were designed with the 4 bolt subframe. If you've spent a lot of money and have a good relationship with the Ford dealer, hopefully they can accommodate you. Your chances are slim though, because Ford is not one to compensate warranty work without some sort of failure/problem. There are a few members in this thread that said they are working with their dealers to get it replaced with the 4 bolt but I haven't heard any updates. Either they weren't successful or maybe they were successful with the agreement not to talk about it. Only people with failures have had theirs replaced with the 4 bolt. I myself would like to see a recall on this but that's going to need more failures. My feeling is that they aren't even worried about whether you are tuned or not if it fails is because if you get lawyers involved, they can easily find that all 3.0L should have the 4 bolt.

 

[2PAC]

All I'm saying is they will never just give you the part. You are much better off saying the part is not supposed to be there but is for whatever reason--and get them to fully replace it. The Explorer 3.0L were designed with the 4 bolt subframe. If you've spent a lot of money and have a good relationship with the Ford dealer, hopefully they can accommodate you. Your chances are slim though, because Ford is not one to compensate warranty work without some sort of failure/problem. There are a few members in this thread that said they are working with their dealers to get it replaced with the 4 bolt but I haven't heard any updates. Either they weren't successful or maybe they were successful with the agreement not to talk about it. Only people with failures have had theirs replaced with the 4 bolt. I myself would like to see a recall on this but that's going to need more failures. My feeling is that they aren't even worried about whether you are tuned or not if it fails is because if you get lawyers involved, they can easily find that all 3.0L should have the 4 bolt.

I'm making some progress tho to be fair I have spent almost a million dollars with ford since 2017.

 

[ghostfranklin]

@Cdubya @2PAC any words of wisdom, or specific word tracks I should use to increase my chances if it's .00001%? I know they shouldn't be used on the 3.0L model, I can point to the aviator, the chances of failure during towing esp with auto start/stop or "spirited" driving. Hell my 2020 I traded in had a 4 bolt sub it may still be on the lot and I know they have two other 2020s on the lot assuming that they have sold yet.

Looking for any advice as I thought it would be more likely for them to just meet me in the middle for the part but @Cdubya pointed out that's actually less likely?

 

[2PAC]

@Cdubya @2PAC any words of wisdom, or specific word tracks I should use to increase my chances if it's .00001%? I know they shouldn't be used on the 3.0L model, I can point to the aviator, the chances of failure during towing esp with auto start/stop or "spirited" driving. Hell my 2020 I traded in had a 4 bolt sub it may still be on the lot and I know they have two other 2020s on the lot assuming that they have sold yet.

Looking for any advice as I thought it would be more likely for them to just meet me in the middle for the part but @Cdubya pointed out that's actually less likely?

I would keep barking down the door, I'll report back with updates on my end, it also helps if you confirm and point out with the parts department what exactly is going on to get them sort of on your side. It's basically a dog fight and I'm assuming they want to keep it quiet so the more hell you raise the more likely they are to just fix it and be done with you. It is bs on Ford's part to do something like this, I would wager supply issues over saving a dollar, but wrong is wrong.

 

[Cdubya]

You are best off contacting some of the members here that are working with their dealers. The hard part is convincing them to replace it even though it hasn't failed yet. For sure mention that you plan to tow. For sure mention you bought the ST so you can have spirited drives. You can mention yhat others have had theirs fail--although anecdotal reports are a weak argument. They can look up the VIN and see what part should have been there. Not sure what else other members are arguing. But for sure don't say you'll just take the part...that won't fly and they'll question that line of thinking. push to get it replaced. the more people complain, i think the better chance you'll have.

I personally wouldn't get a diffy stiffy unless my warranty were up. it may not be the ideal solution but probably would limit catastrophic failure.

 

[ghostfranklin]

@2PAC & @Cdubya thanks fellas I really want to get it done before my mods because I can see that being a whole other mess. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Enjoy your weekend!

 

[ghostfranklin]

Went to the dealer and they are looking into it showed them a 2020 ST on the with 4 bolts vs the three. According to their parts manager who claims to have contacted Ford there was a design change mid 2021 to move from 4 to three bolts. They are going to work on me at personal level but yea shitty move by Ford at the enthusiast's expense. They are supposed to contact me Monday with more info.

 

[ZookaRoo]

Went to the dealer and they are looking into it showed them a 2020 ST on the with 4 bolts vs the three. According to their parts manager who claims to have contacted Ford there was a design change mid 2021 to move from 4 to three bolts. They are going to work on me at personal level but yea shitty move by Ford at the enthusiast's expense. They are supposed to contact me Monday with more info.

If Ford made the change, thats pretty much it. Until a TSB or Recall is issued. The dealer will likely not swap it out either, the cost is pretty substantial. Again if they swap for 1 person they have to swap for all.

 

[Clears]

Went to the dealer and they are looking into it showed them a 2020 ST on the with 4 bolts vs the three. According to their parts manager who claims to have contacted Ford there was a design change mid 2021 to move from 4 to three bolts. They are going to work on me at personal level but yea shitty move by Ford at the enthusiast's expense. They are supposed to contact me Monday with more info.

But if Ford made the change, wouldn't you think that would be reflected on the build sheet? I would think the build sheet would then call for the 3 bolt subframe as opposed to still showing that it was supposed to be built with the 4 bolt subframe. Just a thought.