OK, Went with ZFG Adam Tune…

[FORZDA3]

I know, I know…, after all the bickering about self-tuning earlier I just didn’t have the time/resources to sort out the vacuum WG PID values.

I’ve had some significant medical issues the past few months and it’s dang near impossible to sort the WG without a dyno to hold Load/RPMs, etc, so I contacted Adam who stepped right up to help me out. Just finished a hot 93 tune and starting the E50 tune.

I have the Fuel-It ECA setup on order to monitor the E content real-time

 

[LokiWolf]

I know, I know…, after all the bickering about self-tuning earlier I just didn’t have the time/resources to sort out the vacuum WG PID values.

I’ve had some significant medical issues the past few months and it’s dang near impossible to sort the WG without a dyno to hold Load/RPMs, etc, so I contacted Adam who stepped right up to help me out. Just finished a hot 93 tune and starting the E50 tune.

I have the Fuel-It ECA setup on order to monitor the E content real-time

Glad you came around!

Thoughts so far?


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[Ford Guy]

Curious...what are your 0-60 times on the ZFG 93 tune?
Anyone break into the 3's?
Tks.

 

[FORZDA3]

Adam is much more “refined” in his tuning than I am. He is very methodical and limits changes to only the specifics needed. Me, on the other hand, I’m more ham-fisted and make too many changes at once. I know it, yet can’t go slow when street tuning. A dyno setup would be so much better.
As for the 93 tune result, it’s exactly how I wanted it. I haven’t run any dragy numbers yet, but the peak Load, Torque, etc build progressively without the usual torque spike at low RPMs that hurts parts.
There are only 3 business Tuners (using Cobb and HPT) I trust and Adam is one of them. For the ExpST, I would say he is #1.
Im down in Gloucester, VA so we should meet up sometime and compare notes!

 

[FORZDA3]

Curious...what are your 0-60 times on the ZFG 93 tune?
Anyone break into the 3's?
Tks.

No data on ZFG yet, but I’ll get some dragy data soon for comparison.

 

[UNBROKEN]

So….we’re not racing anymore? lol

 

[TMac]

At least there was a "mea culpa" ....of sorts.

 

[FORZDA3]

So….we’re not racing anymore? lol

Well, not really applicable at this point as I’m not self tuned, but we’ll hold a rain check for later.

 

[UNBROKEN]

It was your ST and tune vs my ST and ZFG…it ok to admit defeat. lol

 

[FORZDA3]

It was your ST and tune vs my ST and ZFG…it ok to admit defeat. lol

There was/is no defeat as a contest hasn’t occurred. You can claim whatever outcome makes you happy though.

According to the data logs, Adam hasn’t done anything different than I would OTHER than solve the PID terms for smooth boost control.
Actually his tune is “safer” than mine as I allow more Load and Advance by raising the allowed CAT and MAT before reductions occur.

I have great respect for ZFG/Adam

 

[GearHead_1]

Well... an opponent's forfeit also goes in your win column.

I learned this the hard way and it cost me $100 because I couldn't run due to a simple broken pushrod. I simply couldn't get one delivered and installed in time to run. Custom pushrods were tougher to get back in the '90s, Manley would make them but you couldn't get one delivered in 2 days. My opponent was a car that I had never lost to and never did. It was a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[TMac]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but "a simple broken pushrod."? It wasn't accompanied by major valve train destruction? I've seen bent pushrods from valve float, and even witnessed a puncture hole in a valve cover caused by the owner attempting to prove he could rev to 8000 rpm, but in those cases there was quite a bit of damage left over!

 

[GearHead_1]

I couldn't possibly take it the wrong way. These were custom-length (read not off the shelf) pushrods and you simply couldn't find one in short order. I've seen rockers break and jettison a pushrod through the valve cover too.

It was an 8000 RPM (actually shifted at 7800 RPM) Cleveland from Earl Wade that was running nitrous. This was a top loader, Mustang, running high 10's in the thin air of Utah car mind you.

The pushrods were 3/8" 2-piece, over a one-piece center. The upper portion of the pushrod was a different material for wear purposes as it was sitting in a guide plate. It broke cleanly where the 2 pieces met dropped the larger portion in the lifter valley and the short piece on the top of the head. Didn't hurt the rocker or the springs and the lifters were tie-barred together. Couldn't have been more simple.

It broke on a Wed. night. I couldn't duplicate the part in time for the Friday night drags. It was a matter of principle, I had made a bet and I couldn't deliver.

Pushrods are pretty much stocked in a variety of lengths these days. As I said, back in the '90's I'd have to send Manley the specs and they'd manufacture it. I had them on hand after that point. It was an awesome running Mach 1.

 

[LokiWolf]

There was/is no defeat as a contest hasn’t occurred. You can claim whatever outcome makes you happy though.

According to the data logs, Adam hasn’t done anything different than I would OTHER than solve the PID terms for smooth boost control.
Actually his tune is “safer” than mine as I allow more Load and Advance by raising the allowed CAT and MAT before reductions occur.

I have great respect for ZFG/Adam

See, and there is the issue. If Adam isn’t allowing it, it probably shouldn’t be done. His tunes are proven to be quicker than others with MANY data points, yet no destruction.

Sadly no more ST for me. Traded on a 21 150 Hybrid a week ago, and the dealer sold it Tuesday. It will make a new owner Very happy.


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[FORZDA3]

Well... an opponent's forfeit also goes in your win column.

I learned this the hard way and it cost me $100 because I couldn't run due to a simple broken pushrod. I simply couldn't get one delivered and installed in time to run. Custom pushrods were tougher to get back in the '90s, Manley would make them but you couldn't get one delivered in 2 days. My opponent was a car that I had never lost to and never did. It was a bitter pill to swallow.

I certainly haven’t forfeited in any way. There was never a time schedule mentioned other than when I finished my tune. That will happen, but will be some time before I’m able to get it all done. I could have run the ZFG tune as “mine” if I was concerned, but I’m not dishonest like that. It’s all in good fun, so I’m not stressed about some forum bickering.

Anyway, as I said earlier, ole broke can declare victory for his bragging if that makes him happy, but a contest of the required parameters has not been run.

 

[FORZDA3]

See, and there is the issue. If Adam isn’t allowing it, it probably shouldn’t be done…..

As a business tuner, Adam has more responsibility to customers whereas I can take mine right to the mechanical limit and beyond without business feedback concerns.

This simple, or not so simple, fact says that I can set my vehicle up to outperform almost any business tuner setup UNLESS that tuner also follows my approach. Adam certainly has more experience on the 3.0 TT and I bow to that fact, but there is NO MAGIC or “secrets” in tuning modern ECU engines. Only the lack of knowledge of the subject creates this sense of “special skills”.
I will admit that there is a LOT more data and adjustable parameters now than when I started hotrodding back in the 60s.

 

[UNBROKEN]

I thought you had found a little humility…nope…same prick as always. Couldn’t do it yourself so you paid the best to get a copy of a real tune…now you’ll tweak a thing or 2 and call it your own. Seen it happen a hundred times…most people don’t readily admit it in the open though.

 

[GearHead_1]

I certainly haven’t forfeited in any way. There was never a time schedule mentioned...

Yeah... well... at least there's a way you could change all of our minds.

 

[GearHead_1]

I personally wouldn't drive 50 miles to settle an internet bragging grudge match, let alone across several states. It's easy to say 'mine's the biggest' all the while knowing that's never gonna happen. I must be getting old.

 

[TMac]

@FORZDA3 Jeesh, you started out this thread so well! After alienating nearly everyone when you first joined, this thread was a good comeback. I think you do have good experience to contribute. Now you're messing it up.